Worlds of Carnage
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 Post subject: Recent changes RANT
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:38:06pm 
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:12:57pm
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I appreciate that the goal of our eminant immortal Blobbie is to create a better and more challenging mud, I also understand that many of his changes are not new and thrilling throughout the mudding world. My problem is that, being new to this mud, I see that many of the changes are driven by the old crimudgeons (no offense meant) who have played here for eons.

Carnage is in one breath perhaps the most and least newbie friendly mud I have ever played on. I was lavished with equip and help for my first 10 levels or so, and have been left behind from there to watch a hierarchy of 5 or 6 shall we call them Elites. People aren't rude. . . by no means, but not overly polite either. Set in thier ways perhaps. . . years of playin the same mud can do that. It may also be that the mud encourages their kind of play.

Limitless possibility for xp gain creates overly cautious players. Why risk dying if you can get 1 more prac, one more skill. Then you add this concept of a death clock. Three times and poof. Not a new idea either, but still no better. Do I prefer the ghost method. . . Hells no. . . Does it biase my opinion. . . hells yeah. But that may not mean I'm wrong.

So much of this mud is geared towards the enjoyment of a small segment, it's really amazing that so many of us small fries stay around. Well, I guess that's not so true. Most of the players I have met are either carnage refugees or cythera refugees.

Hrmph, I guess this rant has just answered my question. The reason why such policies are enacted is not because this mud has the intention of thriving and growing their audience. It is due to a willingness, a supreme desire, to maintain the players it already has.

Ahh well, like most rants, it has no point, no feasable end, nor any enjoyment or benefit to anyone but myself. I do feel better btw if you were wondering. . . Damn Cannucks what else should I expect :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Recent changes RANT
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:04:59am 
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This is a long post you windy bastid :) Anyhoo I'll try to address your issues and points since that's also one of my goals as the eminent Blobbie *heheh*.
Quote:
I appreciate that the goal of our eminant immortal Blobbie is to create a better and more challenging mud, I also understand that many of his changes are not new and thrilling throughout the mudding world. My problem is that, being new to this mud, I see that many of the changes are driven by the old crimudgeons (no offense meant) who have played here for eons.
The changes I implement are not driven by the old curmudgeons, except where I see an idea offered by the players that I like and think would be a good addition. Many of the changes come from a sense of what can increase the dimensions of gameplay, what has some degree of sense while not being so mundane or anal that it destroys the enjoyment of the game itself, and what do I just think is cool since I'm the guy doing all the work :D many of the old geezers around here will be happy to inform you that I've shot them down on plenty of occasions when I don't think their idea or something already in effect is giving me the warm fuzzy feeling I like to have. That said, it is true that a lot of things in the game are derived from what has gone before, but there is still much awaiting change and improvement and those will be addressed as free time permits.
Quote:
Carnage is in one breath perhaps the most and least newbie friendly mud I have ever played on. I was lavished with equip and help for my first 10 levels or so, and have been left behind from there to watch a hierarchy of 5 or 6 shall we call them Elites. People aren't rude. . . by no means, but not overly polite either. Set in thier ways perhaps. . . years of playin the same mud can do that. It may also be that the mud encourages their kind of play.
It is very true that there are a good number of the old timer elites hanging around. I think this kind of thing is true of all muds that have an established player base (be it small or large). These players are usually indicative of a strong relationship between the other long time players, the admin, and the mud itself. That said I don't do them any favours, but I may bend my ears a bit more to their ideas since they have thorough knowledge of the game itself which lends more credibility to what they have to say. Moving on though, you are commenting on the issue of how early on they bestowed their friendship only to withdraw it later or at least withdraw back into their clique. Obviously if this is true (and it is to some degree) then there are other players experiencing the same issue... and so there you can find your solution. Develop your own group of likeminded fellows and do what they did long before. Explore and master the world.
Quote:
Limitless possibility for xp gain creates overly cautious players. Why risk dying if you can get 1 more prac, one more skill. Then you add this concept of a death clock. Three times and poof. Not a new idea either, but still no better. Do I prefer the ghost method. . . Hells no. . . Does it biase my opinion. . . hells yeah. But that may not mean I'm wrong.
While it is true that there is limitless possiblity for xp gain, you should note that the upward climb to ever more exp and gains becomes steeper and steeper to such a point that only the most driven and mindless of players will attempt to contuously climb. This was an intentional design aspect of the new system. Limitless potential, but only for those that truly want it, and you'll find those "elites" with massive xp are already feeling the weight of the climb. As for the ghost system... well I mean it's not really as menacing as you seem to think. Yes you have life countdown, yes when it reaches 0 you become a ghost, but all you need to get up and go again is someone to resurrect you and your lives reset back to 3. This is a compromise between a totally innane ghost system where you spend most of your time haunting the world, and a system where you spend some of your time haunting the world. It adds an extra element of challenge and it can be a bit of fun walking through doors and exploring as a ghost.
Quote:
So much of this mud is geared towards the enjoyment of a small segment, it's really amazing that so many of us small fries stay around. Well, I guess that's not so true. Most of the players I have met are either carnage refugees or cythera refugees.
Actually the mud is geared towards the enjoyment of an extremely small segment... ME :) That said, my enjoyment is partially derived from the enjoyment of the players. I don't tailor the game in particular to making the old timers happy, in fact, many of the old timers didn't want the merge to even happen (both on the Cythera and the WoC side of the coin). I foraged ahead regardless, even instituting the unpopular full pkill. Why did I do it? Because I strongly believe that in the long term it will make the game better. Of those who have stuck around since playing the merged version of Carnage and Cythera, most will tell you that the gameplay has improved, that it is a richer experience than either mud could offer before. That attitude took some time to come around, but it did, and that possibly exemplifies some of my attitude for doing unpopular things despite some of the player fallout.
Quote:
Hrmph, I guess this rant has just answered my question. The reason why such policies are enacted is not because this mud has the intention of thriving and growing their audience. It is due to a willingness, a supreme desire, to maintain the players it already has.
Actually this mud does have the intention of thriving and growing the audience. Much of what I do is as Ive said with an eye to the future. We have lost players already as a result of the merge. Many we lost just didn't want to try it out, others didn't like it early on before the wrinkles were ironed out. And while it was sad to see them go, here we are still with a player base and from what I can tell, a player base that is slowly growing.
Quote:
Ahh well, like most rants, it has no point, no feasable end, nor any enjoyment or benefit to anyone but myself. I do feel better btw if you were wondering. . . Damn Cannucks what else should I expect :twisted:
Like most rants you feel somewhat maligned by the recent changes. And as I've said, I don't cater to the whims of the players unless I think those whims are valid and can improve the future. And yes I do sometimes swallow my pride and admit I'm wrong since I do genuinely want what's best for the future of the game.

Cheers,
Blobbie.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:30:19am 
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:12:10pm
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Quick few points prior to starting my day off.

I'm an old curmudgeon - proud of it - so i'm speaking as one.

First, trust me when I say Blobbie doesn't do what the oldies ask. If this were the case, the danged prelag on heal spells wouldn't exist. I know i've pestered long and hard on that one, and gotten no where. Other things such as how the reimburses worked I also got no where on. And full pkill. I think I through a tantrum over it ;). I didn't like the ghost system at all when it was proposed. Blobs can attest to that. Now, as an old curmudgeon, if I actually had influence these things may not be as they are today, but as Blobbie states, he forged on regardless of what, atleast I, thought.

Next up. As for people ignoring people after say level 10, well, luckily for me, it generally takes some exposure to someone for me to help them at all. A case in point of 2 newer players working their way up the ranks are Sabren and _______ (will remain nameless). Both guys seem like they're good players - up and comers as it would be. However, I tend to help Sabren and not _______. The reason? Nothing to do with how long they've been here. More has to do with each fellows approach to asking for help, and, how often that help is asked for. I guess I should help people more, but I can't stand being nagged so when that happens, I tend to tune out. As for you Aventar - I really don't know you. Not sure why, but I don't. You seem nice though and you've never pestered me, so send me a tell and i'll try to lend a hand a bit more.

Third - limitless EXPing. I happen to be one of those mind-numbing people who keep at it, but, I also have built various other chars up as I just can't exp forever. Blob is again correct, the gains slow pretty harshly after a while. It's that sliver of hope that keeps the people who like to exp going.

Fourth - the game is a better place since the merge wrinkles were ironed out. There are still parts of this mud I still don't enjoy (while I have participated in voluntary PK, never been into full PK and won't change my mind on that one) but the positives of the mud outweight the negatives IMO. I've played a number of muds in the last 17 years (wow just dated myself good) and how this one has evolved is far more advanced that any others i've played.

I need coffee. Send me a tell Aventar, i'll try to get you a bit more involved if I can.

Cheers.

Grael.

EDIT: Pls note that Kayenta has only been on this mud about a year and rose quite rapidly and successfully. I guess she did have a person or 2 take her under their wing, but again, ones approach to asking/accepting help really does lend to further aid.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:16:46am 
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:52:45pm
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Quote:
Both guys seem like they're good players - up and comers as it would be. However, I tend to help Sabren and not _______.


Am i _______ ?
If you are implying me , then i really have a few things i can mention , if not then n/m.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:45:34pm 
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hum. I kinda know how u feel aventar. This game can be overwhelming at first and it does seem like there are 'elites' in the game. But I agree with Grael, its all about how u approach getting help when u need it, or how u ask for advice. I try and at least help everyone a bit cause i know what its like to be new (or an 'old' newbie from before the merge). And Graels right, I did have people help me alot when i was starting, which is one reason why I try and help now. I dont know alot, but I do try. For me its like a give and take relationship. I had to take alot of help, advice, ect for me to be where I am now in the game (and trust me, I'm still clueless), but I also try and reciprocate that knowledge and help cause i know its needed.
There are some that i dont help because they pester me alot ect. But for the most part i do help.

anyway, I'm rambling =)

cheers =)


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 Post subject: My opinion
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:53:48am 
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:25:05pm
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As an old woc mudder this is my opinion.

I help people and have helped YOU Aventar and many more with my alts. Either equip,exp, info, quests. Not as often as people would like but im there. I got about 7 chars and believe me i help.

I dont need to tell you everything . You already have a "book" of an old player with all the answers for quests and stuff and yet u complain, u dont even explore and wants things easy? no sir that wont work. I busted my ass off and earned my rank and eq goin thru hell. I dont see reason to let you or others have a walk in the park. Ill aid yeah but i wont give things easy just cause you ask for help 10 times a day. I see potential on someone i give em a hand.

You have an advantage vs new "newbies" with those notes. You could help newbies too instead of blaming someone else. Helping till level 10 or to start out is a good thing. But if u really want to learn this system and how it works it will take time. This aint happy mud or easy mud where u get to max level in 10 days and people are logged just to help you out.

I help new people like Sabren, Saro, Darius, Ulden and tons of others but i also want to play my game so i wont be a 24 hr helped either.

I heard you on my newbies talking trash about living legends and how you and others wanna raid strongholds already taken. I havent heard a word of you asking for entry on any. Roleplay good sure, go ahead, pk some if you feel like it but you could always ask before goin berserk or kill people but since you move so quietly and stealthy that makes me not entirely trust you. You want to hate big people be my guest, you want to raid one of my alts stronghold go ahead. I have no problem with you atm. I even grouped with you in antioch and sundhaven you seem a good player. But i dont recommend gettin on my bad side. You can ask Grael and the old timers what happens when i get mad. Im usually nice too give you hand. why yet you speak this way and do not even as for entry to a stronghold if thats what you want? Either you want to get bigger so you kill people or dont know who to ask.

Blobbie doesnt give us what we always want like Grael points out. He makes the mud in his image of what it should be, and we all as players have the right to comment. As you know experience is a good thing when you speaking about things and sadly old players have more than new ones. Not because we are smarter but because we took the time to learn on our own and not just ask how things work. Most quests are learnable even if noone shows you.

I quited this mud for about 3 and half years and when i came back i was blank. People didnt tell me everything i needed to know and i thank them for it. I built my knowledge and chars and im proud of it. I dont need to apologize for been a living legend. And the so called "elites" you could be one , just exp a lot, group with people ,get bigger, learn stuff. You are gettin there in my opinion. I dont see many others been bigger than you. Exept for the really big ones.

Ghosts i dont like it, but i see no big deal if u got a cleric friend that would resurrect you when the time to die comes. Maybe you dont like it because you wanted to pk more and this made it more difficult. Cause as we all know players who act like jackasses killin left and right are dealt with swiftly. And probably wont get a resurrection if they get on peoples bad side. Maybe im wrong but u gave me this impresion lately because of the way you talk and the comments you make here and on mud.
If im mistaken my apologies but I had to express my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: My opinion
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:52:03am 
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:12:10pm
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Quote:
I help people and have helped YOU Aventar and many more with my alts. Either equip,exp, info, quests. Not as often as people would like but im there. I got about 7 chars and believe me i help.
Yep, Torak does help a helluvalot of people.
Quote:
I dont need to tell you everything . You already have a "book" of an old player with all the answers for quests and stuff ...
Wish I had a book of quests. I rely on my ever-failing memory ...
Quote:
I heard you on my newbies talking trash about living legends and how you and others wanna raid strongholds already taken.
Strangely i've heard some of the same. I'm still willing to help out though, just curious where the mass bitterness came from.
Quote:
But i dont recommend gettin on my bad side. You can ask Grael and the old timers what happens when i get mad.
Despite our arguments on this forum and disagreements in game - I know better than to mess w/ Torak in a role played PK situations, that's for sure.
Quote:
Either you want to get bigger so you kill people or dont know who to ask.
Hmmm ...
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Most quests are learnable even if noone shows you.
Most ... cept those danged impossible ones where the keywords can't be found! (*ticklesTorak*)
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You are gettin there in my opinion. I dont see many others been bigger than you. Exept for the really big ones.
Any Champion adventurer is reaching "elite" IMO.
Quote:
Ghosts i dont like it, but i see no big deal if u got a cleric friend that would resurrect you when the time to die comes. Maybe you dont like it because you wanted to pk more and this made it more difficult. And probably wont get a resurrection if they get on peoples bad side.
An interesting take Torak. And, with ghosts you need a cleric friend to actually be online to help ya out ...
Quote:
Cause as we all know players who act like jackasses killin left and right are dealt with swiftly.
This has been the case in the past, and it will be interesting to see how this rolls out post-merge, but, I suspect that you're right again.

Ok, ok, ok. Enough agreeing w/ Torak!

All that being said Aventar, i've offered to lend a hand both here and on the mud and the offer is still extended. If you don't choose to take it I won't be insulted, just befuddled.


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 Post subject: btw
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:45:10pm 
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:25:05pm
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I will continue to aid people on my spare times or when im in the mood, i have helped those who have talked like that and "want to raid" a stronghold of one of my alts. I have no problem or quarrel with em and I understand growing up in a new mud can be stressful if big people dont help out. But believe me we are way more helpful than tons of muds and way more helpful than in old days.

Said that lets kill some mobs and get the player base up helpin. Preach with example not just talking. Like i tell everybody i give titan's helms and kick ass eq they cant get at some point on their own. Dont pay me back just do that for someone else when u get bigger. Help out or take under your wing someone you see has potential. Cheers


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:40:23pm 
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:52:45pm
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OK I will admit it. I am one of the ones thinking of taking a stronghold. Not out of spite , just it sounds like a fun adventure.
Quote:
Strangely i've heard some of the same. I'm still willing to help out though, just curious where the mass bitterness came from.
The bitterness from me is simple. <not from you torak, and grael>
but i feel shunned. I see the "eletes" and I am not with them.
I became annoying because i was given hand outs and became reliant on them.
What happens is ,and kayenta is a little guilty of this, is you get the nebs eq/weaps and stuff. that dosent seem bad but in my case it is I needed eq, but i needed to be part of the group and shown HOW to explore even more. Once you are able to learn on your own (by dooing the newb quests ) then getting eq will be eaisy for them. Since i wasent ,i have become annyoing, asking for help on quests and eq . And for this i am sorry.
Now i am babbling hehehe.
To finish this off, I would like to clear up all bad blood will everyone and attempt to start with a clean slate.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:40:52pm 
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Dont pay me back just do that for someone else when u get bigger. Help out or take under your wing someone you see has potential. Cheers

pay it forward eh? :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:30:40pm 
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What happens is ,and kayenta is a little guilty of this, is you get the nebs eq/weaps and stuff. that dosent seem bad but in my case it is I needed eq, but i needed to be part of the group and shown HOW to explore even more.
We cant show u how to explore dread. People have been showing me how to explore since I started and I still dont know how to do anything. What u need to do is be willing take take chances and explore on your own. I did. And that helped me alot. In order to learn anything you need to take chances, get lost, killed, whatever, thats how you learn, not by following someone along or logging what they do so u can replicate it.

We, or at least I, give eq to newbies because I know what its like to be a newbie and have no eq. And I know that it will help them while they are exploring their new surroundings. If u dont like my appraoch to it then fine, thats ur opinion. But you have to realize that most people wont really group with newbs to help them cause they have to learn for themselves. Grouping with us has no real advantage cause they wouldnt get any exp and then when we are not there, they would be lost and complain, ect.

So maybe put forth some effort to do things on ur own, learn quests on ur own. Dont rely on me or the others to help you, thats the only way ur gonna learn anything.

And since I've started to ramble on my rant I'll stop now =)

Cheers


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:41:13pm 
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:52:45pm
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That is my point. i agree with you. THat is what i mant by a clean slate.sorta..

so on this , i think sould be the end of it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:20:38am 
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:25:05pm
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Quote:
OK I will admit it. I am one of the ones thinking of taking a stronghold. Not out of spite , just it sounds like a fun adventure.
Quote:
Strangely i've heard some of the same. I'm still willing to help out though, just curious where the mass bitterness came from.
The bitterness from me is simple. <not from you torak, and grael>
but i feel shunned. I see the "eletes" and I am not with them.
I became annoying because i was given hand outs and became reliant on them.
What happens is ,and kayenta is a little guilty of this, is you get the nebs eq/weaps and stuff. that dosent seem bad but in my case it is I needed eq, but i needed to be part of the group and shown HOW to explore even more. Once you are able to learn on your own (by dooing the newb quests ) then getting eq will be eaisy for them. Since i wasent ,i have become annyoing, asking for help on quests and eq . And for this i am sorry.
Now i am babbling hehehe.
To finish this off, I would like to clear up all bad blood will everyone and attempt to start with a clean slate.
Hehe i know dread. I know you Eredan and Aventar planned this, maybe more but im not angry or anything. :) I simply stated something not as a threat but to keep u healty hehe. When I pk someone I really do it and dont give quarrel. And I think some of you arent ready to fight someone like that. I understand the challenge, believe me I raided silver tower last age when i came back and you could say i was like newbie or in the same place you are now and suddenly i had 4 people hunting me down hehe was fun but really hard to deal with. Eventually i got better and bested some of em hehe even gave some people that now are friends hell.

I raided strongholds on a daily basis due to some aspects of the mud that allowed a crazy technique to be used. Such has creating limitless dancin swords or having 100 mobs following you with suggest.I also pked evils since my roleplay was a goodly and holy player. Some people really hated my char last age but now we get along and trust each other cause even if i killed most of em i showed respect and didnt multi kill em or didntn incinerate or loot their corpses. And some made me flee too. All in the name of fun play hehe. My fun mostly

As long as you respect people and roleplay good im ok with whatever people comes up with. I didnt stop helpin you did I? hehe so chill man, i got no bad blood, im a happy mudder nowdays.


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 Post subject: btw
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:26:01am 
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:25:05pm
Posts: 101
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Dread sometimes can be noisy and asks a lot for help but i seen him help newbies too so im cool with him, even helped some of my chars not knowing who they were. Giving me eq and gold, thats cool, like Eredan says pay it forward hehe. :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:06:12am 
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:47:52am
Posts: 6
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Speaking as a "reborn" newbie after a long long absence, in my alts I've found Dread honorable and especially helpfull with a equip item I've long sort after... thanks for the help Dread.


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