Losts of posts while I was at work...hehe


Just some comments on some things I find funny....
Not sure why one would want to aim for mediocrity I am also quite fully aware that I am far from the best pkiller I have played against....
First of all, how the hell else am I gonna come up with a role play other than inventing one? Perhaps its purpose is in part to pkill...perhaps it is to stir things up on a mud that has become lazy....
That cracks me up that because I enjoy something more than p(torak) it is my problem....*chuckle*
lol, i am not hurt in the slightest. It matters little to me what the players at large thing of my role play...in fact considering how anti-role play most of them are I would be surprised if they embraced it. I guess role play for most of them would be just fine as long as it did not affect them. Sounds like a "barney mud" mentality to me. And to comment on the "nomatter what anyone says" part...that is pretty much true with respect to the players that make no attempt to role play themselves. It is not entirely true when it comes to those that do, and I would change my role play instantly if Blobbie asked me to do so.
good ol' grael, what can I say...I never once stated I did not build Luz with pkill in my mind...i merely stated, as you quoted...."i didn't know what i wanted from the character at the time" Was he going to be goodly, was he going to be evil? What groups would he align himself with, what niche would he find for himself when he started a role play? etc etc etc Guess you ran off on your own little tangent anways...woot grael! *searches in his bag for some more wool to pull over your eyes*
*chuckle* Glad to see you trying to boss around her character so it can make your character's lazy mud life nice, safe and snuggly. And do you honestly think that I could not exp on my own? Come on now...you can give me more credit than that. I was not role playing my character at the time, and p(plinia) and I are friends...thus exping with her was good company and mutually beneficial. When i exp'ed solo I actually leveled faster, but I am not always a fan of being a loner (I will get to that later) and prefer to have company exping. I was goodly to neutral at the time and as previously stated unsure how I would develop any future role play. What are you really scared of after all Grael? Would you rather hide in a hall all day rather than face somebody that might hurt you? Whoops, my bad...forgot it was p(grael) I was responding to.....
Glad to see you got them eyes open! I could have very easilly have waited until level 75 to "pick my role play". At such a time I would truly be powerful and my saves would actually be affective. Knowing they were not and knowing I still have many weaknesses I began regardless. Heck, I will always have weaknesses just waiting for the right person to exploit. As I mentioned before, I do not always enjoy being a loner, and I knew that (with this current player base) whatever role play I picked would most likley turn me into one. Well I eventually just sucked it up and decided it was time to stop putzing around and start playing...so I posted. Do I now spend my every waking hour hunting evil? Hell no...my style of play is not much different than before other than the fact that I am now alone all the time...and I always on my toes for people to attack me...and if I run across evil in my journies I will attack them. (humm...mebbe it is more different than i convinced myself...lol)

Quite true Torak, which is one of the reasons I hesitated as much as I did in beginning a role play with Luz.
Well, I have to say first of all I never did intent to tell p(torak) that he does not role play. In most of my posts I say that very few make an attempt to rp or something along those lines....well p(torak) is pretty much the only one I was referring to. (with the exception of some old time cyth people that are not active enough) Oh well, perhaps the earlier words were not intended for you but were best expressed in a reply to some of the things you said




Sheesh, look at me ramble! Guess that's all for now
Keep up the good work gang encouraging all those budding role players out there! Oh, and role players out there, just keep on role playing and people will love you! (as long as your rp does not affect their big cushy characters)

It's no secret I like the pkill aspect of mudding. I like it because once you've done everything, you've done every quest, you've solved every secret, what's left to the game? Sure there's the social aspect, you get to hang out with you're buddies, and that's a powerful attraction regardless, but you do the same things over and over again. At least with pkill there's a real brain behind the player that can give you some new and interesting challenges to solve. Currently the penalty for engaging in pkill is extremely, low, and if you don't want to engage in it, feel free to run screaming like an elvin baby since there's no exp penalty for fleeing from a player. True you may die, but you may die to a mob, you may die to stupidity *shrug*. I'd rather die to something with a brain

Anyhoo, to address the other issue, the issue where some are complaining about Luz entering the RP arena late in his character's life. I'll agree, it seems a bit questionable, but then at least he's chosen to pursue an RP, for better or worse, I'm sure he'll stick by it now, even though he's currently being ostracized on more levels than Luz alone. All in all I think the MUD can only improve with greater role play. I know some of you don't want to run around immersing yourselves, that's fine, but why spoil it for those who do? If not for role play then all we are is hack and slash, and personally I don't think hack and slash is worth the time you guys put into playing, and the time I put into coding. On the same note, I don't think Barney is where I want the game to be again since it attracts people like Eustace and Teshaghez. I'm sure if it turns out that getting really into pkill sucks because of the exp loss issue that I'll find a way to improve it, but I can't do that very well without decent feedback.

In closing, I'll just say that almost every player we have is a loyal long time player, the kind that really makes a mud great, but right now dwelling on the semantics of entry into the role play arena and a 250k pkill exp loss seems a lot like time not so well wasted A better direction of debate would be to comment on how we can improve the experience instead of kicking people in the shins on their way out of the starting gate. Perhaps I can do more to direct how pkill works (WITHOUT MAKING IT OPTIONAL). One thought is to force a player to choose an RP at creation, if none chosen then that player can never start a pkill, although they would be able to defend themselves from such. Then the pkiller in question would be forced to follow a specific RP for the duration of their life with only immortal sanctioned changes after creation. And of course the pkill would be readable by everyone at all times via the "whois" command. I dunno, what I do know is that constructive criticism goes a lot further and keeps motivation and players around

Maybe that RP command could be implemented in game using it when you wanna enforce and immerse more in the story of your char. And having a duration of 1 rl day. A flag on whois and on who list. Then that player would get some benefits and penalties. Such as:
*Improved regen like we had on guilds
*Limited access to who list for the duration of the flag. To rp more accordingly to the story. In a fantasy world as big as ours im sure the orcs dont see a who list then go out and kill humans. Maybe like an alt who list that only see races and no names.
*Some kind of puishment for people who abuse it with a flag put by an imm so mobs in most towns aggro to player.
*Access to a public stronghold 1 on each continent no fight rooms.
*2damroll 2hitroll 50hps 50mana -1sav all bonus
*Access to the rumors system that i dunno if still exist on bartenders.

Some ideas, i say all give some to enrich the discussion.

Think that one aspect that needs to be considered in the constructive comments on the PK situation is the introduction of the ghost system. Now that EXP loss has been reduced and you're free to flee, there's still the loss of a life which may be where some of the deep frustration comes from. This is potentially open to abuse as well, as if a player is constantly picked on everytime they seem to log on by someone 10-15 levels higher, they'll quickly end up being ghosted and get more frustrated as their lives tick away. Not sure how many people who're typically online at the distributed hours a number of us play have resurrection (e.g. bang goes your corpse and all you're equip at the next reboot (crash) if no clerics happen to be around at the time), but if you also take into account the RP aspect, why would an evil cleric necessarily resurrect a good char who's been ghosted.... (and visa-versa)

I'd love this, but I think that most everyone would declare a role play for this bonus alone. There would need to be constant enforcement of the role play by some imm to allow such a bonus (a new job for Pazam! ). Like the bonus given for the player page creation a while back, the actual quality of role play (like the player pages after a while) may not enhance the game as people will be looking for the real nice bonus moreso than putting effort into role playing. But, if Blobbie likes it - woot!
I think this still exists Torak. I noticed a hp or 2 here and there in one hall. Perhaps it has been incorporated into the micro tick. Not sure precisely, but i'm guessing the regen bonus is still there.

I have not fully deveolped how I feel on the issue....but here are some suggestions I hope will open up more dialogue:

-I like the idea of an RP flag, but I do not feel any bonuses should be associated with rp'ing, considering we are playing an RPG to begin with...it should just be natural

-I agree ghost system does make people more afraid of being pkilled, where before it was just a loss of a little exp and mebbe a wounded ego, but not potentially catastrophic consequences. I just feel the player base is not large enough to support ghosts at this time.

-Perhaps penalty for being pkilled, instead of loosing a life, would be to have your body unable to perform certain tasks for a specified period of time (1 mud day?) Perhaps your body needs this time to recover from its wounds. During this time the player cannot: kill mobs, kill players, talk to other players, cast any spells, emote, or ooc. Mebbe they are also confined to a specified area during this time (A Pit of the Fallen?). Also changed would be the time before a player's corpse would rot to account for the fact they will not be retrieving items from it for at least a day. Also changed would be the ability to loot a corpse. Looting may only be performed by the player who killed the victem. If another wants to loot, they must be granted permission from the victem with an askloot type command.

I am not even sure how I feel about all of these ideas, but I am hoping with some additional suggestions we can come up with something feasable.

I respectfully disagree with this suggestion. Won't this just further impede the "prey" from getting their stuff prior to corpses disintegrating? (which would not work with the no looting of corpses by those other than the person who did the killing as stuff just sits on the ground, unowned). Players already have to go retrieve their stuff, then regen, prior to being able to play. Forcing someone to sit and wait to do anything might simply result in people doing 'quit y' as they don't want to sit helpless while a predetermined time limit expires. I'm not sure I see a point to further punishing a player who happens to fall to an opponent when no fight was sought, but, was thrust upon that prey.

Now, if there was a way to track the initiator of a pkill fight, and if the initiator gets punished for losing (as suggested, the loser pays a price) - this might work a bit better. Kind of a "you go looking for trouble and lose, pay" concept. Not sure this could be implementable as some fights are instigated via verbal assaults well prior to a blow being landed, and, the first person to land a blow is not necessarily the person looking to scrap. Perhaps that old idea about declaring an attack (not necessarily known to the attackee mind you) would allow the "instigator penalty" to be implemented. (A side note, there is an instigator penalty for fights in hockey where the guy who starts it gets 5 more minutes in the penalty box than the opponent).

Thrudd's points on life losses are valid, and I see some value in the fact that if people are mean ruthless pkillers - so be it - but they may never find a cleric willing to ressurrect em as the result may simply be one dead cleric ... I guess the dual side of this is the "prey" might turn ghost too if slaughtered endlessly by more skilled pkillers.

(Btw, for my clarity only, by mud day, are you referring to 24 "ticks"? )

Heres another stupid suggestion =)

Wouldnt it just be easier and happier for all to have an arena or something that would allow people who wanted to pkill to pkill there? That way those who did want to worry about being killed by someone wouldnt have to worry about it.

You could have like a challenges system or something. You could still keep RP and such. Arena could have a few rooms or something to allow for flee/heal to make the fight longer, ect. Perhaps killings in the arena could result in no lose of life, just lose of exp.

For example: Luz is RP killing/defending the light from evils. He could challenge evils to fight against him in the arena. They have the right to say yes or no obviously =) It might take away some of the fun of hunting someone to kill them, but you would still be able to fight.

My gauge on this whole pkill thing is that not alot of people like it or want to do it/deal with it. I know I dont. Being forced to hide because I dont want to deal with a pkiller is not really my idea of fun, but thats what its come down to for me. I respect Luz for trying to RP something, even if the whole mud hates the idea (me included!) of what he is trying to RP. And I think maybe Luz should realize hes trying to RP defending the light/killing evils in a mud that right now is not receptible to flow-blown pkill like that. I know he likes doing it, and is good at it, but (with the happy exception of Armand) the rest of us dont. And it will take time for that to change.

*ok Standard "don't listen to anything Kay says" disclaimer is applied here now that I'm done rambling *

cheers

Me likes to make little gnome flee *licks*

Lets be honest the only way some of you would pk is to have this:

*No exp loss on dying to a pc
*No loss of lives in pvp
*No looting allowed

That might never happen but its what would make people stop complaining. We can go over a million ways to make it better , complicated stuff like flags and rp at creation and bonuses/decreases. I would love to pk more but i dont cause even if i roleplay that char is controlled by a friend who spend time of his rl life to get exp/items and i know i can beat him/her so i dont see a point pk that much (i may sound too confident of my abilities so if anyone thinks im wrong challenge me ). Luz not because he is immensly good but because he dares and tries and good at it has been my only challenge since the dawn of last age either my equal or my best, depends on the day. The more the merrier

Also about Luz. I think he mostly roleplayed goodly chars in the past. I heard on cyth and on insymnia and solaris on woc were goodly. That may maximize his number of targets here too but perhaps its half to follow his origins and half to get good hunting. I know I did that with Thorak last age. I saw just evils playing and went to make a goodly with an attitude hehe. Cracked he was I tell ya that old Thorak. lol

Also Luz dude, I respect you but that rp good vs evil is old. What you will get is maybe the next scenarios.
1. You goin ghost then noone resurrecting you.
2. Maybe get resurrected and you and the cleric who did ghosted again.
3. Also lets say you dont die again, then mudders will all go make goodly,neutral chars to avoid you.
4. If you play more yer evil char to rp they will switch to their evil chars.

And so on and on. Till you get bored cause theres noone around to fight and I know or think you dont want that. I like pk too but I made some players quit in the past, cry babies you would say and maybe they were. But I usually help people get big, i share info, equip,etc not because im extra nice but because if they get big someday i may have well ... more targets if i make a new char. More fun. And to you guys dont worry ... yet if i make a char for that ill give ya heads up since level 40 since im still used to the old guild system. My current chars will continue as they are mostly, may you never know. Remember the Malinko move in the past, nothing is constant.

OK, Im going to try this once more. The point I was trying to make really had nothing to do with pkilling, it was roleplaying. They are not the same frickin thing, and Luz, you seem unable to distinguish between the two, and there are numerous instances in your posts where you use the two terms interchangably. My objection to your letter on the board in Elkin had little to do with your decision to pkill, because honestly, I (and many others, I am sure) assume ALL your alts are pkillers, because thats how you play. That's your buisness, and I for one have never held it against you, I just stay out of the way when you decide a spree is necessary. That's my buisness. My point is it's entirely possible to roleplay any character, of any race, of any class, without ever having to pkill. To define a character as a 'pkiller or not a pkiller' has nothing to do with roleplaying, it should extend naturally from your characters personality. For myself, I do not enjoy pkilling, Im terrible at it, I find it extremely time consuming and non productive (as if endless exp runs is productive). I could point out countless examples of roleplaying by others in varying degrees, and it should exist in day to day interactions between your characters and others.

and im done

Well said.

I just want to say that going after someone and killing them while they are fighting another mob (like the baker) is something I don't have a problem with. I've had pk characters in the past and have used this tact. Some people don't purposefully use it, others do.

PK'ing isn't about making friends, its challenging yourself, it's like Survivor. Outthink, Outplay, Outlast!

bah you people are cruel. how do you expect me to read all of this crap with the little free time i have at work