Worlds of Carnage :: spells of healing

interesting. sounds like a good idea to me

Since these skills that interfere w/ the casting of the healing spells are post lag skills, how about making healing spells post lag as well?

Then lets make combat skills post lag too. Seems like a double standard that a warrior can type: st;head(or smash) w/o penalty but the cleric can't type: st;c heal w/o penalty (potential loss of spell and inability to use skill).

HB/Smash is damned powerful (and we all (lotsa people) use it and live by these skills), so is rebirth - clerics live by that.

Lets make it one way or the other but not one way for spells and the exact opposite for spells. Casters are "penalized" when there is no reason they should be while their combative compadres are not penalized in the same manner.

If warriors want to revert back to the pre-lag on combat skills so they get knocked out prior to firing a hb, rescue, stomp then i'm fine w/ spells being wasted and unusable against spammy AI mobs as well from pre lag.

I just think we should have it one way or the other, and i'm partial to post lag for all skills.

(Oh yea - lets make mobs the same as players as far as post/pre lag on skills

)

Actually combat skills are post lag as are almost all offensive spells. healing and regenerative spells are pre-lag. This was sorted out ages ago and the players in general agreed it was a good compromise over the much hated prelag only system.

I dont really see a valid argument he simply for the fact that i dont see a pure cleric on the front lines. There shouldnt be an exception to this simply because there are Cleric/warriors or Cleric/black knights who have that melee capability

If you bother to read my comments carefully, you'll note that this is not the reason i'm stating that I think there is inequity amongst casters. That is what Blobbie is saying, not me.

Author:	Grael [ Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:23:59pm ]
Post subject:	spells of healing
Healing is (usually) used due to the current or past occurence of combat. During combat, mobs use skills (bash, HB, ground smash) that interrupt a casters ability to fire a healing spell off (which results in a loss of 1/2 the mana of the spell, and obviously, no additional HP). Since these skills that interfere w/ the casting of the healing spells are post lag skills, how about making healing spells post lag as well?

Author:	Kayenta [ Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:57:27pm ]
Post subject:
interesting. sounds like a good idea to me

Author:	Grael [ Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:04:01pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: interesting. sounds like a good idea to me Clerics, of course, should agree. It's whether the IMP thinks so in the end. I personally like it, but that means diddly.

Author:	Blobbie [ Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:20:28pm ]
Post subject:	Re: spells of healing
Quote: Since these skills that interfere w/ the casting of the healing spells are post lag skills, how about making healing spells post lag as well? Other than ground smash your argument has little weight because the Cleric's place is in the flanks. That said, I have been considering it, but haven't decided as of yet.

Author:	Armand [ Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:55:28pm ]
Post subject:	about that
If that is been considered is it also for flee and mage spells? Clerics with rebirth at poslag would be unstopable cause no matter how much you could headbutt or smash em, they stand and heal up while warriors or other classes lagged 3 rounds. I got a cleric and like Blobbie says cleric way should be in the back lines. This are not normal clerics they re halfbreeds with warrior skills so they get penalized for having more damage i think its balanced the way it is. Maybe losing 125 mana on failed rebirth is too much but the rest is fine. You get knocked, you cant finish casting, makes sense. I think you refering to ground smash particularly like Blobbie says, I think he will have solution so clerics dont waste their mana now that mobs do that a lot. Headbutt and bash seemed ok cause of their randomness and besides most clerics are Bk's so you got corpses up front or aiding and mob switches during smashes givin you time to cast or headbutt.

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Author:	Grael [ Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:21:44pm ]
Post subject:
Then lets make combat skills post lag too. Seems like a double standard that a warrior can type: st;head(or smash) w/o penalty but the cleric can't type: st;c heal w/o penalty (potential loss of spell and inability to use skill). HB/Smash is damned powerful (and we all (lotsa people) use it and live by these skills), so is rebirth - clerics live by that. Lets make it one way or the other but not one way for spells and the exact opposite for spells. Casters are "penalized" when there is no reason they should be while their combative compadres are not penalized in the same manner. If warriors want to revert back to the pre-lag on combat skills so they get knocked out prior to firing a hb, rescue, stomp then i'm fine w/ spells being wasted and unusable against spammy AI mobs as well from pre lag. I just think we should have it one way or the other, and i'm partial to post lag for all skills. (Oh yea - lets make mobs the same as players as far as post/pre lag on skills )

Author:	Armand [ Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:44:36pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Then lets make combat skills post lag too. Seems like a double standard that a warrior can type: st;head(or smash) w/o penalty but the cleric can't type: st;c heal w/o penalty (potential loss of spell and inability to use skill). HB/Smash is damned powerful (and we all (lotsa people) use it and live by these skills), so is rebirth - clerics live by that. Lets make it one way or the other but not one way for spells and the exact opposite for spells. Casters are "penalized" when there is no reason they should be while their combative compadres are not penalized in the same manner. If warriors want to revert back to the pre-lag on combat skills so they get knocked out prior to firing a hb, rescue, stomp then i'm fine w/ spells being wasted and unusable against spammy AI mobs as well from pre lag. I just think we should have it one way or the other, and i'm partial to post lag for all skills. (Oh yea - lets make mobs the same as players as far as post/pre lag on skills ) Im confused. Arent combat skills already postlag? When I do a headbutt the lag extend 3 rounds after the skill kicks in. Rescue is prelag, so is flee, sneak and such, but direct attack are postlag. Cleric skills have prelag I dont remember during combat how long it takes but maybe just 1 round. Think about something too, Mobs will get same as us. That means mmm some big mob can stand right away from a headbutt and cast silence on all of us. Things like that. This debate of prelag/postlag was ended in the months when I wasnt here. I was maybe the only supporter of prelag now its postlag on most. Mages spells and cleric spells and combat skills with no lag on first strike were cool. I agree with you about the spammy mobs making mana just waste, but the solution aint easy i think. So many things could change in fights cause of little tweaking. Need to consider many aspects. But if it benefits us the better hehe PS: Just a question on your example you say why a warrior can do stand,head and a cleric cant do stand,heal? Lets see im warrior i so that St head dioius You knock dionius 1 2 3 rounds of lag Which may or may not cause between 0-4 stunned rounds then dionius the cleric who wants to heal up after a headbutt does st cast heal dionius 1 round of lag That is if dionius aint a cleric/warrior and did headbutt before nd expect to get healed faster. If he did that well its question of luck if he be able to heal fast or get knocked again. If he didnt he has time to cast heal and depends on luck too, the warrior could fall to the ground cause dionius didnt stand, got lucky and 1 round stunned so he can heal. So not really sure you wasting tons of mana all the time. Maybe its on a specific area or mob? How about you log a fight and show it to us. Im more a visual person so need to see it happening to support or not support you.

Author:	Grael [ Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:32:10pm ]
Post subject:
Sry if i wasnt clear. Yes, combat skills are post lag, and spells are pre lag. My point in all that rambling is that a warriors type can use its best skills right after standing (post lag then kicks in) and a caster can't (has to wait for prelag). I don't see it fair for fighter types to be able to do this immediately and casters not. We should all be either stuck w/ prelag, or, all of us use post lag. For an example, take for instance your post on log/journal forum. If you were trying to stand and cast, you would not have been able to as the guard and gypsy kept you down. You would have lost the mana on the spell and not had the spell work - result would have been the same (if Armand could heal) - death. I prefer all postlag on all skills with mobs and players having the advantages (and disadvantages) of postlag. Moreso, I prefer all skills/spells treated equally.

Author:	Blobbie [ Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:33:38pm ]
Post subject:
Actually combat skills are post lag as are almost all offensive spells. healing and regenerative spells are pre-lag. This was sorted out ages ago and the players in general agreed it was a good compromise over the much hated prelag only system. This debate is closed. I may change some spells at my own discretion, but there will not be a mass change to one or the other paradigm solely. I think the best of both worlds was achieved with the compromise. If you are a healer, find ways to prevent yourself from being, or at least minimize the chance of being, stunned.

Author:	Grael [ Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:58:23pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Actually combat skills are post lag as are almost all offensive spells. healing and regenerative spells are pre-lag. This was sorted out ages ago and the players in general agreed it was a good compromise over the much hated prelag only system. Seems heal spells get nailed Pre-Lag (letting people get knocked over) and most other skills get the benefit of post lag where players can at least use their skills/spells w/o suffering well timed bashes, ground smashes or HBs. I don't see the logic behind this, or the logic behind "clerics should be row 2" - so should mages, necros, shamans, or any other spell caster. How are they different? Why the double standard for offense vs healing? Why should some classes get a penalty for using their life giving/taking skills and others not penalized in the same manner? How many people today think that this is just? Even Armand changed his mind on this (as told to me the past 7 days) about clerics suffering to use their skills when others don't get the same pre-lag penalty. Just makes no sense to me why a cleric (or healer) gets the crappy pre lag while no other (or few other) skills do. Funny that clerics are being penalized b/c they have skills inherent to their class that heal and b/c they heal (and only because they heal as far as I can tell) they still suffer pre lag when it was removed from other classes. "This debate is closed." Why should any debate be closed? If there was logic behind this other than the "stand in back row" (which isn't universally applied to offensive casters as well) I may drop it, but other than "Blobbie says so" - I still don't see a valid argument (not while other supposed row 2 casters can cast w/ post lag).

Author:	Blobbie [ Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:08:09am ]
Post subject:
Actually there's no double standard... cleric offensive spells are post lag, and mage non-offensive spells are pre-lag. You're just unhappy with the status quo for healing spells. Get used to it.

Author:	Juba [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:44:19am ]
Post subject:	healing spells
I dont really see a valid argument he simply for the fact that i dont see a pure cleric on the front lines. There shouldnt be an exception to this simply because there are Cleric/warriors or Cleric/black knights who have that melee capability

Author:	Grael [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:40:00am ]
Post subject:	Re: healing spells
Quote: I dont really see a valid argument he simply for the fact that i dont see a pure cleric on the front lines. There shouldnt be an exception to this simply because there are Cleric/warriors or Cleric/black knights who have that melee capability If you bother to read my comments carefully, you'll note that this is not the reason i'm stating that I think there is inequity amongst casters. That is what Blobbie is saying, not me.

Author:	Blobbie [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:03:50am ]
Post subject:	Re: healing spells
Quote: If you bother to read my comments carefully, you'll note that this is not the reason i'm stating that I think there is inequity amongst casters. That is what Blobbie is saying, not me. If that's not what you mean could you please summarize in fewer than 100 words what you do mean... because you're confusing people including myself.

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Author:	Torak [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:11:17pm ]
Post subject:
The way I remember mages and clerics in the fantasy literature is that both classes had to be in back rows performing their magics. The difference between offensive spells and healing arts in books was time too. Healing takes more time than sending a fireball since you are closing wounds, its not supposed to be automatic and requieres more concentration than throwing a ball of fire since you are dealing with life forces and praying, power of deities, etc. I consider the healing arts powerful as they are. I use a cleric/bk and havent had much problem expin solo. Yeah sometimes if i go vs a big mob on my own and he headbutts a lot i cant even heal or rebirth myself but thats my fault for either trying to headbutt him instead of stand and cast spell before he can hb again. 1 round of lag seems fair but I understand Grael point of view. But I dont think the best combo in mud needs to be pumped up when other classes need more skills or spells.