Worlds of Carnage
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Exp loss on flee
https://www.wocmud.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=60		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Armand [ Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:25:13pm ]
Post subject:  Exp loss on flee
What do you guys think of exp loss when you flee from a mob or a player? Personally I think its unfair. Why I think that? Well lets see. Lets say im fighting a mob whose total exp is about 40k worth a kill. If i flee maybe twice, sometimes even once I lose that same amount of exp. I think huge loss of exp was used in the past to stop backstab/flee combos on thieves but it keeps affecting the rest of the people in a bad way. my idea about it is to make it trophy dependant the exp loss on flee and half of what it is now, if u keep gettin less exp from mob you kill a lot ,you could also get less exp loss on flee from same mob. Otherwise you are losing exp with no chance to get it back fully or even to 50% back. What do you guys think?
Author:  Marton [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:24:09am ]
Post subject: 
I agree flee penalty can be high. I am not an expert on the retreat skill but perhaps that should be the way to ensure minimal losses when leaving combat...
Author:  Eriath [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:24:47pm ]
Post subject: 
The penalty is sometimes harsh, however, the penalty is there as a "punishment for failure" as I would call it. And so being if you kill a mob all the time shouldn't you lose MORE exp when fleeing from it? Since you've killed a mob so much you should be expected to do it without fleeing, I would think. *shrug*
Author:  Kayenta [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:58:52pm ]
Post subject: 
Flee can cause a great deal of exp loss, maybe sometimes too much. There should be a way to find a balance between flee loss and how much the kill is worth to you at your level. If you are losing more from fleeing than you are gaining from killing a mob, then thats a slight problem?

idk, something just seems off with it

cheers
Author:  Grael [ Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:20:45am ]
Post subject: 
1) If you don't want to risk EXP loss, don't fight mobs that may make you flee.

2) As higher levels kill the same mobs over and over, the total exp gained from those mobs decreases. Find new mobs and you may equalize the amount you lose due to fleeing vs your potential gains.

3) Paladins (and maybe Jacks) have a skill to retreat instead of flee to reduce the exp loss. This gives these classes some added power/skill/advantage and reducing exp loss to virtually nothing renders these skill less useful and subsequently, the classes that get the skill.
Author:  Blobbie [ Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:57:51pm ]
Post subject: 
I recognize there's an issue with retrieving experience after dying or fleeing many times when your experence for a given kill decreases over time. However, as Eriath has pointed out it is meant to be a penalty for attempting a mob to large or failing a mob you should have been better equipped to kill. Understandably there are some issues with exp gained from mobs that are way tougher than the exp you get for the kill, this is currently a defficiency in the exp trophy calculator due to level differences and no consideration for AC. Addiitonally as Grael has pointed out, reducing exp loss to flee, diminishes the value of the goblin race, the retreat skill, and more recently the regroup spell.
Author:  Armand [ Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:43:55pm ]
Post subject:  point taken
No exp reduced on flee. Like I pointed out thats not the real issue. Like you said its the losing exp for good that troubles me. I have said before I wouldnt mind losing 5 million exp if i die at high level or losing 100k fleein. But I would like the chance to get those million back. At a high % if u die that exp is lost for good, unless you make a new char and try no to die or flee so much. I know new areas will be put in and that will lessen that issue. I know you trying to find a way to make it better Blobbie, its hard, i tried to do math on that with the knowledge of how the system works and its so difficult to balance and make it fit. No preasure, just wanted to know opinions of people on this matter.
Author:  Tuor [ Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:24:09pm ]
Post subject:  Flee Eriath
Quote:
The penalty is sometimes harsh, however, the penalty is there as a "punishment for failure" as I would call it. And so being if you kill a mob all the time shouldn't you lose MORE exp when fleeing from it? Since you've killed a mob so much you should be expected to do it without fleeing, I would think. *shrug*
Penalty for failure? are u dumb? Flee is a known tactic too, either to win battles or explore dangerous places. Its not failure its simply a stealthy way. I have used it many times and players like you have fallen to my dagger. Failure you say? I say brilliant and I shouldnt be punished so much for been smart. Many world battles have been won using the hit and hide techique so learn new ways nd dont call punishment for failure something that could save you.
Author:  Chemal [ Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:22:38pm ]
Post subject: 
Maby the exp lost could be added to the experience gained if you are able to return and defeat the mob or whatever you had to flee from? I don't know how that could work, but just a thought...
Author:  Grael [ Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:00:10pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Maby the exp lost could be added to the experience gained if you are able to return and defeat the mob or whatever you had to flee from? I don't know how that could work, but just a thought...
This would inevitably get abused Chemal.

For example: I have a char w/ 20 million exp that I hate. I attack a mob, flee, attack, flee and repeat numerous times. I then tell my buddy Gobo that there is a mob out there that i've fled from a TON, he walks in, kills the mob, and gets exp well above what he should have earned for it.
Author:  Chemal [ Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:05:31pm ]
Post subject: 
Good point, Grael, I hadn't thought of that.
Author:  Grael [ Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:15:36pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Good point, Grael, I hadn't thought of that.
You're an honest one then! :)

It's human nature to exploit everything, so i'm sure it wouldn't have taken long for someone to level some chars real high using this technique.
Author:  Eriath [ Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:17:34pm ]
Post subject: 
No worries, Tuor. I was just stating my opinion on the matter.

and also, recovery of experience from fleeing if you kill the mob could be done I would think, the code would just have to make it specific to the player that fled, and the chance to redeem that experience from the mob should go away after so much time passes, I still think the experience you get back should be lowered though, Fleeing shouldn't be a cake walk. I dunno, maybe I'm just a glutton for pain.
Author:  Scrouds [ Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:34:49pm ]
Post subject: 
The whole exp loss for fleeing is an interesting concept. From a rl perspective, it is a completely bogus concept. I study classical fencing, and i cal tell you that you you gain "experience" even when you face an opponent and either lose or give up. But this would require a new combat engine altogether.

From a game perspective, i think a penalty for fleeing is necessary. It balances the advantage you get when you strike first. That being said, i think that the harder an opponent you face off against, the less your flee penatly should be.

Maybe also based on how long you have been fighting. (ie if you went 10 rounds, flee penalty would be less then 2 rounds) Or a similar measure, like number of sucessful attacks.[/i]
Author:  Zamadhi [ Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:24:48pm ]
Post subject: 
The problem is not how much XP you lose on a flee, IIRC its 1/4? And goblins is half that and retreat halves again.

The problem is that the XP-loss calculation is based on how much MAX-XP you can get from the mob, in most cases you aren't going to get that.
You'll get a system calculated amount.

Flee should cause an XP loss of 1/4 or whatever amount it was intended - but the fractional amount lost should be based on how much XP you will actually gain.

In playtesting a player can easily lose more XP from fleeing than dying 3 times in a row. That is where the problem lies.

Dying is now less harmful than staying alive and running away in many cases. Death used to be extreme, now fleeing is comparitively ;)
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