What its the general opinion on this classes at low levels? Specially mage I think its pretty weak unless combined with a warrior class and I dont see many of those.

One thing I noticed and found unfair for mages is that the power of their spells depends on too many variables. The level, the int, the wis, the quality and %. While warriors at a low level can max str con and have a killer headbutt that can do 3 rounds of stun while mages do soul strikes to scare mice.

I think mage spells should be upgraded too, Most spells were premerge based and all the world changed. Pword kill to do 100 hp dam fo 75 mana cost its just to kill canaries, who has that hps? Most mobs tripled/quad their hps and mana and players maybe tripled hps more or less. Mages spells remained the same and that woulda been ok if the mana increases would been balanced to the same way of changes. Mana didnt quad or tripled, at most doubled. I saw mages premerge with 600mana or even 800 now you need to be around level 75 to get around 1000 mana so i believe its not good. Since now you need 3 more times the soul strikes to kill a mob and with your current mana you cant make it to kill mobs your level.

My suggestion would be,since its too difficult to change mana gains and many mages already created. To remove the level variable after level 50 or 60 for mages/clerics/necro attack spells and regen so they can do good damage and able to level.

Also an increase on regen for mages/ necros since they dont have regen like clerics and mana regen is so low. Either with a skill or inhate. I say this because I regen faster my hps or at the same rate as my mana which is kindda wierd to see.

What you all think,specially I would like to hear input from the Imp staff cause if they dont like it. To make a mage will remain the same. So I dont bring it up again. Im just making one at the moment to do enchants, thats it. It has other uses but mostly im making it to enchant swords. Some classes are made to be roleplayed, sure but puttin 3 times more effort to level a class that wont have enough mana/power to do what my war/necro does, and I dont mean do the same but be able to do things in mage way that will reflect and compared to how well the other classes do, well its just sad considering mages were the top class in the old days. I just miss em.

Dont get me wrong,you made a great class with cool spells and good for multi/class but doin a pure mage even with the bonuses its too hard and not as good.

Yes mages do seem more difficult to play than intended. Part of the reason I changed how sanctuary works is because I think it overly penalized mages. At any rate, the damage amount for mage spells DID increase for merge, however, perhaps not enough. I don't think though that I changed pword kill, I;ve often thought that was for finishing off in one fell shot. I will conisder changing it, but if I do it will no longer be a flat damage value since I don't want level 3 pure gnome mages walking around killing everytning up to level 15 or so in one shot... especially since it's an area effect spell. Another reason mages get double screwed is because a lot of the spells are save vs. for half damage. Maybe that should change to save vs. for 2/3 damage

Oh nice thing on sanctuary. They werent so good fighting those kinda mobs. Yeah i got your point on pword kill, newbie mages would go wipe out entire rooms and make it easy to level. But perhaps on other spells there could be a slight increase, ones that are move advanced so newbies dont got access to em so fast. You idea of 2/3damage saving sounds great. I did some spell testing postmerge and mobs seem to save most of the times, Thats why spells didnt do much damage. On players seemed normal. Cheers

Stating the obvious - characters that can take the largest mobs are the ones that cause the most damage whilst still having hp available to survive. So key requirements are lots of hp, high damage per round and headbutt to increase damage dished our / reduce damage taken. All of this points to warriors being effective at fighting which makes sense. Other classes are not as effective but gain other skills which makes role play and group fighting more effective. Single class Cleric has little offensive capabilty alone but in a group is highly effective.

I would suggest that without help then single class Cleric, Druid and then maybe Ranger are the hardest to advance but whilst there are players who want 100 mill exp chars there are others who prefer more diverse creations that you would not attempt to take to high exp levels.

Contrast the difference in fighting between 2 single class warriors against 2 single class clerics - but we would not all want to play warrior characters.

The power of mages has diminshed post merge and slow regen / high hp mobs do make life much harder now. Previously a mage with a charm could solo many creatures that are now impossible to attempt. However a mage still has offensive power and can be used for other things besides just enchanting.

Unfortunately the mage now has a minimal role in high level groups. A mage offers no healing, few back up cleric skills, often has low hp and cannot headbutt. Whilst offensive spells are useful it then takes a long time to regenerate and mobs with sanctuary are still no go areas. The days of a row 2 mage striking down everything in their path are long gone and maybe the mage was too powerful previously.

Mana increases whilst helping mages would probably end up giving clerics far more additional power. An increased mana regen spell would be good, as would some way of getting around the protection of sanctuary. To my knowledge dispel magic is only able to dispel sanctuary in a few cases and perhaps permanent sanctuary could be removed from some creatures with the option for them to recast it , if dispelled. No save against spells such as soul strike would increase damage but any increase from 50% would be welcome.

A specialised mage spell using say 750 mana and causing huge damage if save failed and maybe zero damage if saved could be interesting - some way similar to the hand of God suggested previously for a Paladin.

Whilst I would like mages to be stronger the mage is an established class with offensive power,clairvoyance, charm, fly, summon, water breath etc and I think there may be other things more pressing that the Imms might wish to work on rather than improving mages.

Would it maybe help mages if they had access to the regenerate spell like clerics? or maybe some adaptation to that spell that would allow them to regenerate their mana faster than they currently can? Im sure some of the higher level mages have 700 plus mana, and I know that takes a long time to regen if u get it down to zero, or near there. Maybe some kind of regeneration spell could be useful.

Just a thought =)

cheers

Some kind of regen for mages would be great. They are more mana dependat than current clerics. Cleric/war or cleric/bk its the most effective class at the moment. They can have decent hps, rebirths,sanctuary and regen faster than all, besides all the rest of the cool spells. I cant kill mobs that a cleric could on his own. Mages could get a regen spell or skill to be more appealing and effective since they dont got phisical attacks, got low hps and all the can use is mana. Just for dedicates i guess.

Its really hard to level a mage cause you have to normally u kill one mob at a time, then regen, cause you dont have the mana to fight again. A regenerate skill, or maybe some good, mage only regenerate EQ would be so helpfull to a mage, and maybe make the class a little more user friendly.

cheers

Some practical maths on mage:

A mage has 600 mana
Has to cast detect invis
fly
armour
thats 20+35+20 just the basic =75
then if he wants to charm or dance swords
thats 40+40=80

Now we got 155 spent. Its cool, He will regen it walking into the area hes goin.

But now on attacks. Pure mage doesnt have to just cast chill/fists/vortex which is 25+75+75 = 175 on just 1 tick before fight and be ok. But he will also cast at least 3 or 4 soul strikes to kill a mob his own level. Thats 300 more mana. He ends up spending 475 mana on 1 mob, sleep 1 tick then spend 300 more on ss fo second mob if lucky and regened a bit.

And because of fiery vortex and fists duration he cant cast and sleep 3 ticks to get mana back cause in those 3 ticks spells will run out. So he ends up sleepin a lot and killin a lot less.

Regen for a level 55 mage with a belt of 81regen is 8 per micro. So maybe 80 per tick. To get back 600 mana would be like 7 ticks more or less.

Maybe an increase of vortex (non using time) to 6 ticks like sanctuary works for clerics and fists remain same or slight increase too. Could help some mages do a bit more play time.

I have the same issue with the vortex and fists as torak. They dont last nearly long enough, and cost alot of mana to recast. Most mages that use vortex and fists also use chill touch. Is it posible to make vortex and fists last at least as long as chill does?

Vortex is very powerful, I don't plan on changing it. You should have seen how crappy it was pre-merge.

I would say Shaman, as a primary, or as a single class, would be toughest to play.

Druids look neat now.